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The ALLIED Show
The ALLIED Show, hosted by Chris McCarroll, shares real and relatable interviews from health, fitness and medical and technology business leaders from all over the world.
The ALLIED Show
Unlocking Peak Performance: Nutrition Strategies for Athletes and Everyday Life with Sally Walker
Discover the transformative power of nutrition in sports and everyday life with Sally Walker, Advanced Sports Dietitian and President of Sports Dietitians Australia. Ever wondered how elite athletes maintain peak performance under pressure? Sally shares her journey from the University of Wollongong to becoming a leader in her field, and unveils the secrets of personalised nutrition strategies that don't just enhance athletic achievements, but can also improve the quality of daily life for everyone.
Join us as we navigate the complexities of making informed food choices in high-pressure environments like the Tokyo Olympics. Sally emphasises the importance of consistency and practicality over achieving dietary perfection. By drawing parallels between athletes' structured nutrition plans and our everyday routines, we uncover the value of establishing flexible boundaries that support sustainable, healthy eating habits without the burden of guilt or stress.
Finally, we delve into the rewarding journey of empowering individuals to achieve their goals and witness tangible improvements in their lives. Sally shares practical advice on embracing an athlete's mindset, focusing on personal alignment, adaptability, and self-reflection. Her insights are sure to inspire you to enhance your performance and health in a way that aligns with your unique circumstances. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that transcends the world of sports and resonates with anyone seeking a balanced and fulfilling lifestyle.
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Welcome to the latest episode of the Allied Show. My name is Chris McCarroll and I am joined by Sally Walker, Advanced Sports Dietitian and President of Sports Dietitians Australia. Hi, Sally.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:Welcome. It's great to finally meet you and to get to talk about a range of different things that you're doing, so thank you for taking the time.
Speaker 2:No, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:So let's start with advanced sports. Dietitian Sally Walker. Why sports, dietetics and nutrition.
Speaker 2:Where did that journey begin for you? I did in University of Wollongong a double degree in dietetics and exercise rehab, so I've always sort of connected the two with diet and activity, um, largely because as much as a lot of people have got backgrounds with being athletes themselves. That was not me, um, but I do like the science of uh, nutrition and the science of the human body, and just fascinated by the human body, and to be able to use food to influence how it can work and function and move and then change performance and change outcomes and how that's all connected, was what really drew me to the industry quite a lot, to be able to influence and help and support people's health but also their performance through the food choices that they make.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it makes a. In my own experience it makes a big difference of what you're consuming. And I know for a long time when you start a business, when you're at uni, it's just you eat for fuel to just keep going. You grab whatever and you know that might be four flat whites. You know that could literally be what I would consume in a day, which you know. Then obviously there's a run on effect from that.
Speaker 2:So and athletes see that too, in that they some athletes before they get sort of a lot of detailed support. They eat and they train and the two sort of exist separately and they don't sort of pull the two together to be like, look, if we combine these we can actually get really good outcomes or improved outcomes. And yeah, sometimes it's not until people can actually reflect on that relationship of the power of food and the power of nutrition and how to use it effectively to get better outcomes. That's sort of like a first step, key learning, before you even launch into food and what's on your plate.
Speaker 1:So the relationship with food is super important and the way that it gets framed, I suppose, is another way to have to work with athletes and people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a big focus of my concept and how I approach that is the positioning of nutrition and the role that you see it having, and people can sometimes misplace that a little bit and put all the importance on food. Rather than just using food as a strategy to be able to help you reach an outcome, the food becomes the focus and if I eat a certain way, therefore, all these great things will happen, and that's not necessarily the case. You're sort of trying to reverse, engineer an outcome by eating a certain way and focusing on the diet. So, as much as nutrition is my focus, it's making sure it's used as a tool and a strategy to be able to help people to reach their goals, which may be performance focused, which may be health focused, and positioning it that way and sort of pulling it back a bit, putting it into place with sleep and exercise and stretching and recovery and all of those other areas that contribute to health as well, rather than put it on sort of too much of a pedestal um but.
Speaker 1:But knowing the role nutrition plays in performance is is a really important, key first step yeah, and when we say performance, I am going to assume there could be two sides to that. It could be athletic performance and then, you know um, mental, mental performance. It's obviously going to take a big experience and a big, you know, focus to be able to balance the two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and performance isn't just winning medals, it's sort of how you want to show up day to day too.
Speaker 2:So it might be in an office space or an executive meeting, you know, on the track and in sports performances it might just be health, it might be showing up for your kids or however you want to present yourself to the world and how you want to be performing each day. So I don't think it needs to necessarily be tagged to an outcome, because you have the freedom and the choice to be able to own what that is and what performance looks like for you. And that's the beauty of individual able to own what that is and what performance looks like for you. And that's the beauty of individualising it and being led by your own performance goals and your own outcomes, rather than a lot of oh, I should be doing this and I should act that way and I should look like this. And that's when there's less connection with why you're doing what you do, because they're external drivers rather than internal drivers of this is how I really want to, yeah, be performing, to show up and to sort of be each day.
Speaker 1:How did elite sport kind of come into your life? You know you mentioned before that that wasn't you as the. You know as you were kind of driving through and thinking about where you wanted to land in your career. You know we've had NRL, afl, olympics. There's been quite a high level of athlete you've been working with.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:How did that happen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm super fortunate to have worked with so many different sports In my time at the New South Wales Institute of Sport there was sort of a different time, maybe all up 25 different sports programs, from sort of diving, water polo, hockey, basketball, netball, football, like being able to to cover such a broad range of athletes and people and training types and energy systems and being able to sort of conceptually understand that, yeah, there is not one diet that I can be like. This is the perfect thing to do. Guys, everyone just do the same thing. It sort of really changed my lens in how I can work with athletes and to be able to, yeah, be in that fortunate position to work at such an elite level.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate it because those goals were clear, people did know what they were trying to achieve and it was much easier to focus that conversation around how to choose what to eat, because the outcomes and the goals were quite clear, whereas some people can confuse them a little bit with those sort of external factors, as I say, which then changes motivation, behavior change, a lot of that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:So, in working with elite athletes when there was that support team there of, this is when they're training, this is what they're working towards, this is the outcome, this is their schedule, this is what their day looks like. There were so many variables to be able to be across to provide such a more targeted and specific support for that individual that you really could sort of see the impact a lot more. So, yeah, it really shaped my style and who I am as a dietitian in whoever I work with now, in sort of pulling out some of those concepts of how athletes approach reaching a goal and then sort of making nutrition, as I say, sort of one of those steps to be able to do that. But know that it's not just a standalone thing of once my diet's good, everything falls into place, because I've also seen that that's also not the case as well. So I learned something from all of the athletes that I work with to be able to know that everyone is different and they need to be treated individually to be able to get outcomes.
Speaker 1:And that has to be one of the most complex part about dietetics in particular is that everybody is different. There's no like if you were to relate it to a physical therapy. There's no movement that gets a particular outcome or result. It's different for everybody. So, that takes a really unique approach.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's overlooked quite a lot in nutrition servicing in that, oh, just give a nutrition talk, or can you just give that person a meal plan, or they just need help with nutrition. Like what does that actually mean? Like people are going to be hearing and listening differently depending on the lens that they're looking through. So being able to pull that out and have the time to build a rapport and a relationship with the athlete, to understand what their barriers are, what their challenges are, what their relationship with food's like, and then to be able to help construct a plan that suits them and suits their lifestyle and their training schedule, and make that all align, that's when you do have more of an impactful outcome. So, like the healthy food part, like that's easy, that's pretty straightforward, it's the application to someone's lifestyle, so they're actually, you know, going to do it and be able to do it consistently and sustainably that's the bigger challenge which is often overlooked sustainably.
Speaker 1:That's the, that's the bigger challenge, which um is often overlooked. Yeah, and I think for someone who isn't a dietician and I look at it and when speaking with athletes, I had no idea.
Speaker 1:Obviously they're all also different and their goals are all different, but the amount of food required to fuel is insane yeah you know, in some, in some instances, I think that's one of the the counterintuitive things about about it is that sometimes it because it is so different for everybody, you could be seeing an athlete eat a certain type of food and go, oh okay, that's strange, but it could be because they need to hit their calories, or something like that. There's so, and I think that's where sometimes it's a little bit tricky from a publicity perspective to communicate that.
Speaker 2:It's the damage of yeah, comparison too, and sort of again those external factors of what are they doing. And I should be doing the same thing to really put self first, to be like this is what my body needs right now because of what I'm working towards, and that might be that two people in the same sport someone has to increase muscle bulk and someone has to lose body fat or just work on agility, and they don't have to change anything at all. So even though you can overlay same schedule, same sport, same energy demands, and then their goals are different that changes everything again. So, looking at all of the variables that contribute to how people make decisions around food and what they should be eating, that sort of thing again is what's overlooked when you're only looking at the food and that's what people can compare on yeah, and I think also it's sometimes available what's available at a time.
Speaker 1:So where I'm kind of going with that is is you were in tokyo for the olympics. What's what's available for for the athletes, is it, you know? Is there everything available? Is what's that experience like?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean a lot of time in trying to understand what will be there ahead of time to help the athletes build out that plan, know how to make choices and what to choose in new environments and any new environment. The ability to be able to go well, if this is what's presented to me, what's the best choice that I can make from the options that are there? So my role as a dietitian for Tokyo was to be able to provide options so that when they did come to make that choice, it was easier to make. So it's changing a food environment to be able to facilitate those choices, in that if we know we need carbohydrates and we know we need proteins, where am I going to get them from? And in the case of Tokyo, I can't just go down the street and buy them because they weren't allowed out of the village. You know even risks of going to the dining hall and wanting to limit going to the dining hall, with any potential risks there as well, to be able to provide that in the Australian village and in the Australian hub. So, again, it just what are the barriers to be able to access food that is best for you to reach your outcome and that could be in that Tokyo setting, where there was a huge amount of barriers, or just life and day-to-day and going to work. What are my barriers?
Speaker 2:Well, I've got a meeting over lunchtime. What am I going to do? How am I going to problem solve that? How am I going to come up with some contingency plans to still make that work and that sort of was. A big learning from Tokyo is that life is never going to be perfect, environment's never going to be perfect. But how can we construct plans and systems and contingency plans so I can have consistency in my choices, even though they might look a little bit different to what I usually do day to day? So, um, that's largely what the Tokyo planning was is just contingency plan, contingency plan, um, and trying to work around. How do we make this happen with, with what we've got, rather than what's perfect? How do we make everything perfect and like stress out about it? Um, if it simply wasn't going to be the case?
Speaker 1:so yeah, it's obviously like. It was obviously like an extreme example of that for you as well, like quite the experience to have to plan for you. You know, not only was you know in a different country, um, there were so many other variables about you know you're not wanting to essentially leave when you get there, um for other risks. So, um, it kind of does relate to every day, though, because stuff happens all the time.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep. And that's when people are trying to be perfect and what's the exact grams of this and you know type of macronutrient, and like the exact ratio of something, when it's just not sustainable. It just causes additional stress, which is going to be just as impactful on your diet and your health as well. To just sort of have a bit of grace and be like, well, yeah, what's the best that I can do in this situation? And if it's a bit dodgy, then you know, learn from that and be like gosh. I always get caught out and make the wrong choice then.
Speaker 2:So next time I'm going to pack some food with me, to have it ahead of time, to be able to manage that better. Like, every opportunity is both a learning and a lesson. If you have that point where you go, oh, I could have done that better. But instead people just feel guilty and they pull apart their food choices and be like, oh, I'm so fat, I shouldn't be eating this and I'm just going to go off the wagon, that sort of thing, rather than just be like, could I have done that better? Yeah, yeah, I could have, but next time I will, rather than this black and white approach to diet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's something that translates across into individuals every day, where you know sometimes it's not going to go to plan, taking some form of you know, emotion out of it. Obviously that crosses into food psychology, you know, it's just so many layers to it.
Speaker 2:But having a plan and having something that's adaptable and knowing the basics is something that I think two other terminology I put to that is just having some boundaries for yourself, so not like a strict rules or this is what I have to eat, but just to sort of have a bit of a criteria to just at least stay connected to a goal or to stay consistent in your choices. So it's not that all or nothing, and this only works when everything works, but in different environments it doesn't count sort of thing. So it's yeah, it's trying to weigh up those sorts of areas in not being like just eat whatever you want, which you know sometimes is the easier answer.
Speaker 2:But how can I sort of maintain a space that's consistent and sustainable to move forward in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is that something, then, you've been able to take across into private practice as well? Yeah, obviously you know that's a different world completely, but again, same principles apply. I am going to assume and throw that at you. Well, yeah, a lot of people are like oh, same principles apply.
Speaker 2:I am going to assume and throw that at you.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, a lot of people are like, oh, I know I'm not an athlete and I'm like, well, yes, you are, you still train, you've still got a schedule, you've still got things that you can learn from the athletes. Like we don't have to be eating exactly the same as athletes, but we can certainly learn from how they approach nutrition and approach food choices and what's guiding their food choices physiologically, just what the body needs to eat to fuel different types of training, if it's a high-intensity training or not so much. What's really guiding your food choices? And with athletes it may be a medal or a performance, but, as I say, in private practice it may just be, you know, being healthy for their kids, or that's still something to connect with, to guide your food choices. And I think that's what we can overlay. Well, that's what I overlay from working with athletes to then working in private practice. It's still conceptually a similar approach to be able to get change and to reach an outcome. It's just that, again, all those variables look a little bit different for different people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so obviously what you're working with a range of different people. What does a day look like for you? You've got a whole range of different things on the go. Run us through what a day could look like for you what run us through.
Speaker 2:You know what a day could look like for you. Yeah, um, with private practice it will get, um, a range of different people in again with different goals and different focuses. That's why I largely will work sort of with frameworks and sort of try to teach a framework, try to teach people how to make their own decisions and to take ownership of their diet and how to navigate that. I find a lot of people come in and think I just need a meal plan and then if I get that I'll be fine. Like just tell me what to do and I'll do it, which you know is great, it's an easy answer. But if I just tell someone what to do, then they don't have the opportunity to learn and to challenge themselves and to be in uncomfortable spaces where they actually have to go. Maybe I could have done that better. Like yeah, I didn't do that great. Like no one wants to sit in that space to actually make tangible long-term change. They just want a number and a figure and a meal plan and a recipe, and then it's not as hard then. So I'd probably push people in that regard a little bit, to sort of push them to a place that they don't want to be.
Speaker 2:But also looking at different sort of work I do with education and trying to shift that education piece around how to position nutrition for talent athletes and junior athletes and doing nutrition modules and programs for them. Um, that's sort of a key area to try to, yeah, not share the specifics of exact amounts, what people should have, but how they can approach it differently and how they can position nutrition to use it as an advantage rather than something that they just need to do. And then, similarly, working sort of as a president of Sports Dietitians Australia in trying to position that for sort of everyone and how we can connect with sports dietitians and the role that sports dietitians play in someone's performance and progression and that it's not something that needs to be bad or discouraged, that we actually work with people to elevate where you're at and build out where you're at, rather than it's wrong, change it, start again, liken it to be sort of quite a negative space.
Speaker 1:It's sort of trying to look at the positive and build that out. What's a misconception about sports dieticians? I think you know I'll ask you that question first and then kind of give you my my feelings about that. But what do you think is a misconception about sports dieticians and what and who they're actually for?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I think mean they probably use that of that.
Speaker 2:We only work with athletes, but again, it's working with anyone who's sort of an active individual or really anyone with just complex energy demands.
Speaker 2:So it might be that they are a laborer or working on a building site and they're quite active.
Speaker 2:So it's to be able to align the activity and the energy that your body's using, and how you're using it, with the food that you're eating as well. So it's expanding it out a boardroom and that sort of thing in being able to pull out more that activity and performance side that sports dieticians can add to and the value that they can add to someone's health. Because if someone's healthy and clinical issues as well, if we can address them and get the body working and functioning well as a result of the food that you're putting in, then you're going to perform well as a result. So it's sort of a sliding scale too that we can contribute along the whole range. Yeah, and it's just that we, you know, work with elite athletes and can learn from them to be able to put back into practice to make it a lot more detailed, knowledgeable and specific I think that that is one of the the misconceptions that that we kind of hear a lot as well is that sports dietitians are only for high level sports people.
Speaker 1:Uh, and you know, in in when we into that. That's so not the case, and I think it's another example of a professional, a health professional, that has a title that is slightly confusing for the general population in terms of exactly what they do. You know, it's no different to someone who has high performance in their title, whether they're a physio or a psychologist. You know, I think you automatically label and put categories on it.
Speaker 2:But that's not for me, so I don't need to exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's, uh, one of the tricky parts, and if we can try and break that down a little bit and go specifically for sports dietitians, that it's not for athletes, it's for active, for anybody who has those energy demands like you said, that's it's they're they're the right person and a lot of people come into the clinic too and sort of say, oh, I just need a meal plan or I just need some extra snacks, and I sort of think, well, you know, I can figure out what you actually need, like I'm pretty good at this stuff.
Speaker 2:So, being able to talk through needs and goals and like where do you want to be, how do I want to feel and use professionals like you know physios or sports dietitians to, how do I get there? Like help me? And going into being open-minded and asking for help and where we can contribute, given our expertise, rather than thinking you need to know the answer and I'll go to a sports dietitian for that. It might just be like you know what, I just feel tired or I feel flat or exhausted and I don't want to feel like this anymore. I want to get through a whole training session and not feel like I'm going to pass out halfway through, like I don't know what that looks like. I don't know the answer, but I do know where to ask for help and where to seek that out, to try to understand my body better and what's happening, and then maybe through changes in your food.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and with those understanding your body and how everybody is different. I know like we've been working with the Athena team on a range of different things to be able to communicate and understand the different types of products that they've put out. What has your role as a consultant been like with Athena and tell us a little bit about those products?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, athena's been a product that I've worked with since we sort of they came up with the idea and it's been really good to be able to contribute my knowledge of you know the life of an athlete too, so not just the specifics, but you you know some of the barriers that they do have and the challenges that they've got, particularly with this range being specific for female athletes and working with so many female athletes being across sort of the dialogue and the concerns and the the areas of female athlete nutrition and female athlete health that are front of mind.
Speaker 2:So it's not just constructed based on you know what we think they should have to have that input to say, look, this is what they're actually presenting with and this is how they think and act and behave, and knowing sort of what athletes are like ultimately and being able to contribute that side of things ultimately, and being able to contribute that side of things as well as the nutrient side and knowing sort of the levels of protein and iron and nutrients that that their bodies need as well. So it's been sort of like a nice balance of quite a holistic approach to supplement development by considering female athletes and then being able to champion female athletes as a result of that to to provide something that, um, he is them he's in need, and then provides uh options and and solutions through the supplements that we've got available for that yeah, and I know it's.
Speaker 1:You know it takes a long time to develop something like that. You know it's not something that you know. Sure you could you know like that, you know it's not something that you know sure you could, you know, bring a product to market relatively quickly. But if you're going to specify and go, you know we're making this for this particular reason. There's a lot that goes into it. So you know what was the experience like for you being on on that side of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, it's good, Like any athlete. Sort of just seeing progression is part of why I love being involved in sport. To see something build and grow and to then produce an outcome sort of is what I like about the work that I do. So being able to view that through a different lens of a product development and being able to view that through a different lens of a product development and being able to contribute and be part of that, to see the work that everyone else is doing to all put into a shared goal and a shared outcome and with a focus on being purpose-led for championing female athletes and making sure, yeah, that it was a quality product, not just something that we needed to get out on shelves, that it was something that was there to support female athletes, not just say that we would do that, but to actually provide supplements that did that what's, what is the the experience for you now?
Speaker 1:you went to Tokyo, you kind of done all of these things, and this year, paris Olympics, you're a spectator uh, getting to kind of soak up all of that and enjoy those shared goals. Um, from a different perspective, what's that been like on the sidelines?
Speaker 2:to watch. Um, it's nice again, sort of being part of the journey for athletes. So in being able to sort of watch a lot of the sports now and connect with some of the athletes that I've worked with, you know, 10 years ago and sort of still seeing them there and knowing, knowing that behind the scenes side of how hard they worked and you know, not just the athletes being able to see some of the coaches pop up on the screen and support staff, strength and conditioning coaches, people that you sort of see on the sidelines to say, look, I know how much time and effort we've put into working with the athletes and it's such a great celebration of the dedication that everyone has to work with athletes. So being able to watch through that lens it's a really nice way to reflect on my time in sport but then also sort of understand and appreciate athletes and know how much time and effort does go into just even being able to qualify and to get there, to really appreciate that side as well absolutely.
Speaker 1:Um. My last question for you is more around how we can take the, the athlete approach to everyday life. Um and obviously it's not just for elite athletes we're kind of looking for for little, anything that is practical for every day. Is there any kind of uh advice you would give to anybody who is is looking to improve their performance or health?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think, definitely be led by yourself and your circumstances. Don't be going off trying to google what's the next best thing, what's gonna peak my performance? What's going to what does someone else do like? Don't be led by comparisons and shoulds and I should be doing this and I should be doing that and then expecting that outcome, um, if it doesn't connect and align with where your life's at. So if you've got a diet, your diet should support your life, not be ruled by it. So if you've seen this perfect approach to you know, living till you're 100 or whatever and you're trying to jam that into your lifestyle when it doesn't fit, then that is not the right thing for you.
Speaker 2:So, being able to be led by just be real to yourself and your circumstances and what your days are like and then stop, reflect, review, like could I be doing anything differently now? Are there areas I can build out? Is that really the best I can do or is that something that I can maybe shift my priorities on to, to change that around and constantly evolve your diet the same way that athletes would. They didn't just show up at the Olympics ready to go. They did world champs and benchmark events and time trials, and each of those times there's a chance to be like okay, am I on track? Is this where I want to be? Do I need to change anything? Oh, actually, I maybe need to build out my strength a little bit and you revise and you review based on what your body's telling you, and that's when you can be really proud of the output, because it's purely a product of you and your efforts and your prioritising and the the types of things that that you're putting the effort into, um.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, definitely, leading with, leading with self, um and what your body needs, and then getting support and help to be able to pull that apart a little bit, to to problem solve, to to be able to make sure that it is your life and that, yeah, it's largely just problem solving ultimately, and just making it work. How do I bring it to life? I know what I've got to do. Most people would say, oh, I know what I should be doing. I know what I should be doing. So I think the key really is how do I actually do it then? How do I bring it to life? How do I make it work for me, for my environment, for my circumstances?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think that's perfect. I think that perfectly sums up everything we've spoken about and and I can see your, your passion for it as well, and how you know you've been in this space for so long I understand why now of being able to help people with their goals and and make improvements and and be able to actually see the results of their hard work. I think that has to be extremely rewarding.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for spending some time. You know very busy person, so I really appreciate it and I'm sure everybody listening will really take away something.
Speaker 2:Oh, great Hope, so too.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thanks. Great Hope so too. Thank you so much. Thanks, chris.
